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Re: [Walthamstow, E17] "£884,000 for the EMD"
In December 1999 English Heritage invited residents of Walthamstow to take part in a consultation over whether the ABC Cinema in Hoe St (subsequently the EMD, formerly the Granada) should be Grade II* listed. The building was already Grade II listed but the idea was to gold plate the listing. Grade II* listing was agreed.
In 2000 the cinema celebrated its 70th anniversary by showing a film from every one of the previous seven decades.
In November 2000 ABC announced the closure of the cinema, telling the public that they would have to go to Woodford or Stratford to see films for at least two years until a new cinema was opened in Walthamstow. At the time the most likely place for the new cinema seemed to be the Selborne Walk redevelopment in Walthamstow town centre.
Mohan Sharma bought the former Granada from ABC in November 2000, announcing that he planned to show Indian language films. Eccentrically he opened the cinema at the beginning of Ramadam. Mr Sharma is a Hindu.
In March 2001 Katy Andrews and I, the joint founders of McGuffin (the organisation was named by me) appeared in the local press with cinema luminary Leslie Hardcastle, to announce that we had agreed with Mr Sharma that McGuffin's would show the Indian art house classic The Adversary, at the cinema. Several McGuffin's presentations at the cinema followed.
In August 2002 the Universal Church of the Kingdom of God bought the cinema. The building closed as a cinema in January 2003 (five years ago) and was not restored (as UCKG planned and in fact achieved at a similar cinema in Finsbury Park) because UCKG lost a planning appeal. At the time the church might have had problems restoring the cinema anyway, since it had attracted a lot of bad publicity thanks to the Victoria Climbie case. This probably resulted in a reduction in its income. It also probably resulted in a reduction in its need for large halls to hold religious events in, like the former Walthamstow Granada.
In 2008 it is not surprising that some would like to see a new cinema in Walthamstow. But it is a shame to see the old building crumbling into dereliction when there was a perfectly viable scheme to restore it.
It is also a fact of life that religious enthusiasm waxes and wanes. For example, in America the considerable religious enthusiasm during which odd things happened, like the election of George Bush as president, seems to be receding. It would be a shame if the tide of religious enthusiasm runs out in England before UCKG gets the chance to restore the Granada.
Of course, other things might happen. Pigs might fly. A Bollywood cinema might open at the beginning of Ramadam again. But I wouldn't count on it. Would you?
Jonathan Brind
On Thursday, Jan 10, 2008, at 14:44 Europe/London, jackie wrote: Thanks for clarification. In a way i am glad about it ...Walthamstow needs a new cinema more than it needs more retail space.
It's a shame the old Granada has been let go to ruin, but if we can't have a cinema on the old site, then one in the Arcade development is better than none. ---
philipherlihy wrote:At the demo on Saturday some folk were holding posters with the above message, and I was told this represented a sum earmarked for consultants to "look into" the possibility offinding space for acinema in the Arcade development. I've asked about this, and this is what I was told: "The figure referred to is not payment for consultants to look into the possibility of a cinema on the Arcade site, nor is it a subsidy to the developer. The Council has however agreed to accept a lower payment from the developer for a scheme on the Arcade site that includes a cinema.
From: "caramelquin"
Date: Mon Jan 14, 2008 19:07:25 Europe/London
To: walthamstow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Walthamstow, E17] Re: "£884,000 for the EMD" ?
Reply-To: walthamstow@yahoogroups.com
To clarify this issue of the EMD's price...
The UCKG bought it from Mr Sharma for £2.8m (not including the
Gravesend lease). I know this for a fact because when I was giving
evidence to the public enquiry the inspector asked for proof that the
UCKG had paid over the odds for the building, so I sent off to the
land registry, got the information and submitted it (it, erm, didn't
occur to the council or their lawyers to do this!)
A later survey commissioned by the LDA, with a view to a CPO, valued
the building at £1.5m. It is presumably worth less now in real terms
on account of its state of repair. And n.b. that because of it being
highly listed and its use being restricted, the value of the property
won't have rocketed because it cannot be turned into housing, shops, etc.
So the UCKG paid £1.3m over the odds on the presumption that they'd
get the planning permission they sought. And now they are unwilling,
as best I can tell, to sell it at a loss. Which is why no-one has
successfully bought it.
To be clear, if the council is willing to invest nearly £1m in the
future of a cinema in Walthamstow, I want to know whether they'd be
equally willing to use that money to subsidise a purchase of the EMD
(or to bankroll a CPO of it) for cinema use. This could make the
existing offers to buy the cinema instantly more viable. (And I too
can vouch for the fact that such offers do exist - I've personally met
with one of the bidders, who had a cinema chain on board and everything.)
The irony is that, despite all the local interest, councillors still
haven't realised how much they have to gain from playing such a role
in saving the EMD!
Caramel
P.S. I am *delighted* to see that this issue is still alive and well.
I haven't seen so many posts on a subject for ages. It's clear - from
this and the huge crowds gathered outside the cinema the other night -
that the EMD will not die!!! |
To: walthamstow@yahoogroups.com
From: j@brind.tv
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:27:33 +0000
Subject: Re: [Walthamstow, E17] Re: "£884,000 for the EMD" ?
This would make no sense since buildings are expensive to keep idle.
And buildings dilapidate. The Granada had significant problems five
years ago and I would guess that the situation is much worse now.
If there really had been considerable interest in the purchase of the
building someone would have made them a sensible offer. The fact that
UCKG has not sold suggests this has not happened.
This is not really surprising since there are very limited use
possibilities for the building and it is inherently difficult and
expensive to develop a grade II* listed building.
You presume that Mr Sharma sold the building to the UCKG for silly
money, I doubt that was true. I think the price was actually likely to
have been modest for a very large building in the centre of Walthamstow.
Jonathan Brind |
On Sunday, Jan 13, 2008, at 18:12 Europe/London, Simon M wrote:
These include a conference company, an Indian wedding company, and
several cinema-related ventures. Given this, it seems clear that the
UCKG are not holding out for a non-cinema company, but are holding
out for a silly money bid so they aren't seen to lose money on their
original purchase.
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From: John Leeming
Date: Mon Jan 14, 2008 15:03:04 Europe/London
To: walthamstow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Walthamstow, E17] Re: "£884,000 for the EMD" ?
Reply-To: walthamstow@yahoogroups.com
I understood at the time that £2.8m was paid for both, but since I
understand that the church only bought the lease of the Gravesend EMD, not
the freehold, then the Walthamstow cinema probably accounted for the lion's
share of the £2.8m.
After the church moved out of the Gravesend EMD, it mysteriously burned to
the ground.
John L. |
From: "Simon M"
Date: Sun Jan 13, 2008 18:12:47 Europe/London
Posted by: "Jonathan Brind" j@brind.tv
Until someone actually publishes a viable scheme involving the
purchase of the cinema from the UCKG I continue to be extremely sceptical.
That is your right. But as several people closely involved with the
campaign have testified on here, there have been very serious and
firm bids to the UCKG for appropriate sums.
These include a conference company, an Indian wedding company, and
several cinema-related ventures. Given this, it seems clear that the
UCKG are not holding out for a non-cinema company, but are holding
out for a silly money bid so they aren't seen to lose money on their
original purchase. |
On Saturday, Jan 12, 2008, at 16:18 Europe/London, Chris Rollings wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: john pridige
Building a new cinema next to a perfectly viable building is madness -
That's an opinion of course. Personally, I'd prefer a nice modern
multi-screen building similar to those in Wood Green, Enfied, Ilford,
etc., with modern eateries and entertainment sections underneath. With
the bus and tube station so close, the amount of business such a complex
would generate for the area would be brilliant, putting us back on the
map as a place for youngsters to come to in the evening, instead of
being a place to get away from. If there was enough space, it would be
good to see bowling or similar in the same complex (like in Ilford). |
From: John Leeming
Date: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:29:58 Europe/London
To: walthamstow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Walthamstow, E17] "£884,000 for the EMD" ?
Reply-To: walthamstow@yahoogroups.com
Katy Andrews wrote:
> First, thanks for pointing out that the church that
> met in the Granada when it was run by EMD didn't use
> the main auditorium but cinema 3. I think they may
> also have used the foyer to begin with, but that
> wouldn't have been soundproofed!
They (the "Precious Stones") were already using Cinema 3 during ABC days,
but I can't ever recall them using the foyer - not for services, anyway. The
Cinema Organ Society often ran shows in the main theatre at the same time,
and although we could hear their music faintly, it was not a problem when
the organ was playing.
They were very friendly people, and we used to help them get their equipment
stored away at the end of the show so that the films could start on time.
On one occasion it became apparent that our radio mike was using the same
frequency as theirs, and when the organist switched the mike to address the
audience, we suddenly had loud guitar and keyboard music being relayed
through the PA system!
Happy days!
John L.
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From: Chris Rollings
Date: Mon Jan 14, 2008 19:39:14 Europe/London
To: walthamstow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [Walthamstow, E17] Re: "£884,000 for the EMD" ?
Reply-To: walthamstow@yahoogroups.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Katy Andrews
What we have is essentially a modern two-screen cinema,
Yikes. They weren't quite what you'd call modern day cinemas. Screen 3
was like watching a large Plasma in a pub, and the Screen 2 was hard to
see through the sea of other people's heads owing to the bad seating
design. Modern day cinemas have this a bit more sorted!
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From: Katy Andrews
Date: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:30:03 Europe/London
To: walthamstow@yahoogroups.com
In answer to Kit's posting at the end of last week,
the point was that the year EMD opened at the Granada
the new moon for the month of Ramadan fell on a Friday
evening. Mr. Sharma chose to open his cinema, which
was only allowed to show films in the ethnic languages
of India, on that particular Friday evening - at a
time when practically the entire Asian community in
the area would be in the local Mosques or eating at
home!
It wasn't just a silly business decision, but showed
that Mr Sharma was completely out of touch with his
main potential audience.
I'm not aware of anyone having complained about
feeling offended, and as far as I know most people who
realised what he'd done found it amusing. I did!
A better analogy might be a Christian opening a
bagel shop in Stamford Hill on the eve of Yom Kippur
(major Jewish fast day), but even then it's not a good
match as anyone can eat bagels whereas not everyone
can understand Punjabi/Urdu/Hindi/Gujurati/Tamil etc.
Anyway, just thought I'd clarify.
Katy.
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From: Chris Rollings
Date: Thu Oct 4, 2007 19:28:05 Europe/London
To: walthamstow@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Walthamstow, E17] Re: Cinema
Reply-To: walthamstow@yahoogroups.com
----- Original Message -----
From: philipherlihy
>Quite. Pickett's Lock is a desolate, soulless place.
In contrast, I find the Wood Green Showcase or the Enfield Cineworld
fascinating buildings with excellent and amazingly comfortable
auditoriums (auditoria?) allowing one to fully enjoy the film watching
experience.
I look forward to the day we get a similar modern complex in
Walthamstow.
|
From: "Ian F."
Date: Wed Jan 16, 2008 03:17:31 Europe/London
To:
Subject: Re: Re: [Walthamstow, E17] Re: "£884,000 for the EMD" ?
Reply-To: walthamstow@yahoogroups.com
The rave that didn't seem to have any connection to the network of people
involved in organising underground parties in squatted old buildings around
London occuring at that time. People weren't in the habit of destroying
listed buildings, it creates bad press.
Ian
> That is no reason to close the Granada down, however
> - it is a reason to replace and upgrade the screens
> (which would be necessary anyway as both were damaged
> during the rave that took place shortly after the UCKG
> took the building over).
> Katy.
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