My husband's great-grandmother,
From: joanflood84@btinternet.com
Date: 10 November 2009 21:43:59 GMT
To: j@brind.co.uk

Subject: Richard Brind 1834

Dear Jonathon

I have been given your email address by Clive Brind as someone who might be able to help me sort out a problem I have with a Brind in my husband's family.

My husband's great-grandmother, Henrietta Brooks, married a Richard Brind in 18/9/1866 in Bow, He was single, a shipwright with a father who was alive at the time, also called Richard and also a shipwright. The LMA records seem to have one that fits these details in their Baptism records, born 1834 in Plumstead, father Richard, shipwright, mother Sarah. Henrietta and Richard had a daughter, another Henrietta, born two months after the marriage in Poplar.

I had always assumed that Richard had died because Henrietta remarried in 1874, to George Gates, and went on to have several more children. Her daughter took the name Gates in the 1881 census and is classified as George's daughter. However, when the daughter married in 1886, Richard is down as her father but not deceased and George Gates is a witness. I am very confused!

If you can clarify this in any way I would be very grateful!

Best wishes

Joan Flood
1866 Marriage solemnized at the Parish Church in the Parish of St Mary Stratford Bow in the County of Middlesex
No When Married Name and surname Age Condition Rank or Profession Residence at the time of Marriage Father's name and surname Rank or Profession of Father
??? September 18 Richard Brind Full Bachelor Ship-wright Bow Richard Brind Ship-wright
Henrietta Brooks Full Spinster   Bow George Brooks Waterman
Married in the Parish Church according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church after Banns by me after banns ???? Partridge Curate
This Marriage was
solemnized between us		 Richard Brind
Henrietta Brook x mark		In the presence of usThomas Rogers
John ????
1874 Marriage solemnized at St Thomas's in the Parish of Stepney in the County of Middlesex
No When Married Name and surname Age Condition Rank or Profession Residence at the time of Marriage Father's name and surname Rank or Profession of Father
108 23rd July 1874 George Gates at full age Bachelor Mariner Stepney John Gates Labourer
Henrietta Brin At full age Widow   Stepney George Brooks Waterman
Married in the Church of St Thomas according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church after Banns by me James Roe
This Marriage was
solemnized between us		 George Gates
Henrietta Brin		In the presence of usJoseph Pierce
Louisa ???? x her mark
Begin forwarded message: From: Date: 11 November 2009 23:36:34 GMT To: Jonathan Brind Subject: Re: Richard Brind 1834

Thank you so much for the emails Jonathan, apologies for the delay in replying but I have been checking my details and have come up with some more anomalies which I hadn't really registered at the time.

In the 1861 census Henrietta is living with her parents and siblings in Poplar, marries Richard in 1866, but in 1871 her father is living with a Mary Brin, widow (same age as Henrietta whose second name was Maria) and her daughter Mary Brin (same age as Henrietta's daughter, also with Maria as a second name). No trace of Henrietta Brind and as far as I know, George never had a daughter called Mary!

When Henrietta marries George Gates in 1874, her status is widow and her married name is down as Brin. Yet I can find very few Brins in the Records and none that correspond to either a Mary or a Henrietta or a Richard!

I will scan the certificates I have tomorrow and send them to you and wish you luck. I hope you have plenty of aspirin handy! Thanks again Joan
The logical solution to this problem is that Henrietta married Richard Brind born 1797/8 in Woolwich, Kent, father of Richard William born 1833. The elder Richard died in 1867 (young wife?) so if this is right Henrietta would have been free to marry in 1874. Richard's wife was called Sarah and there is a record of a Sarah Brind who died in 1861 in Poplar. The father of Richard (born 1797/8) was also called Richard and he was a shipwright. The thing that is against this is that the elder Richard died in 1844 and the marriage certificate does not say that he was dead. Well marriage certificates did not always mention the fact that fathers were deceased.

There are two Richard Brins listed in the 1861 census:
HouseholdBRIN, Richard181150 MIslingtonLondon, Middlesex
HouseholdBRIN, Richard179566 MNarberthPembrokeshire


Neither seems very promising. You may notice that Henrietta said she was illiterate in 1866 but could read by 1874. This may explain why her spelling of Brind wasn't too good.

If you want to check this out I suggest someone buy the death certificate of Sarah Brind whose death was registered in the third quarter of 1861.


There seem to be five Richard Brinds in the 1871 census including one born in Kent in about 1834 who was living in London. Your husband's g-grandmother's first husband? This is a young Richard from the 1841 census but appears to be the wrong person. This is a link to a Richard born 1834ish, who is the son of a Richard. See entry from the 1851 census looks like the right one.